TREBLINKA TALK

OK - I thought I'd never see the day... Here is what a certain Luca wrote in response to a comment by Sergey on my post "On Comments by Gwen and Sergey (Israel's Bill on Holocaust Denial)" in August :

"...I must say however, the biggest problem for exterminationists is not even the engine type. It is the lack of material evidence.

Only loonies will believe 800.000 to 1 million people can be destroyed in a especif area without leaving evidence aplenty. The soviets investigated Treblinka I and II in August of 44. They found few more than 300 bodies and if I remember correctly, these had not even been burned. At the end of 45 the poles did another investigation. They too, didn't find much.Of course it didn't stop the soviets and poles to "conclude" that mass murder had been commited.There many other logistical problems I'm not even mentioning here."

Luca - is that your name? - where do you come from, I mean, besides another planet? Are you from Brazil by any chance? I am asking because I noticed an unusual number of hits coming from Brasilia, the capital, right around when you left your comments...

Well - I am Brazilian. And whenever I come across deniers from my own country, I am doubly appalled. Silly, I know, but what can one do?

Now about Treblinka:

"Only loonies will believe 800.000 to 1 million people can be destroyed in a especif area without leaving evidence aplenty."

Really? Maybe because those killed were first buried in mass graves, then exhumed, then burned in huge pyres (the “roasts”), then their bones crushed and mixed with the ashes and all that then re-buried in the mass graves. I’d say that would probably take care of all that aplenty evidence...

There is ample evidence everywhere to support the claim that Treblinka was one of the camps used to carry out Operation Reinhard. And except for the usual revisionist mumbo-jumbo, all reputable sources on Treblinka will tell you that the number of Jews who were killed at this small camp was around at least 800,000.

"The soviets investigated Treblinka I and II in August of 44."

So? That was long after Himmler - who after the debacle of Stalingrad in the winter of 1942-43 became increasingly concerned about secrecy and with eliminating the evidence of the Nazi atrocities - ordered the dismantling of the camp and the destruction of physical evidence of the mass murders already in early 1943.

On top of the that, there was the revolt of inmates in August 2, 1943, and as a result many of the camp’s structures were ruined. The few buildings left did not survive for long - after liquidating as many prisoners as possible in reprisal for the uprising, those still alive were ordered to finalize the destruction of the camp. The remaining Sonderkommandos were forced to level the area, clear it of its mass graves, and plant pines around it. Hence, there was no immediately visible trace of mass murders at the time of liberation/investigation by the Soviets.

The last gassing in Treblinka was on August 21, 1943 (the Bialystok transport). After that, any remaining prisoners were transferred to Sobibor in late October 1943.

"They found few more than 300 bodies and if I remember correctly, these had not even been burned."

Where did you find that specific information? In any case - the villagers, after the Nazis left, decided to sack the area of the camp in search of valuables. As they were digging, searching for gold, they did come across corpses/human remains. I believe you might be referring to that. I suppose not even the Nazis were completely, perfectly efficient and they too made mistakes…. Maybe they thought no one would care about evidence of a few hundred dead Jews anyway.

"At the end of 45 the poles did another investigation. They too, didn't find much."

Please see my reply to your previous two assertions above.

"Of course it didn't stop the soviets and poles to "conclude" that mass murder had been commited."

Well, if you as a villager came across 300 corpses/human remains disposed of in that fashion, what would you think? Not to mention the incredible pestilential smell that filled the air day and night, a horrible stench mentioned in several reports by military personnel stationed 20 kilometers from Treblinka.

Perhaps you don’t know that one of the most important confirmations of Treblinka as an Exterminatinon Camp comes from a Nazi - Jürgen Stroop, author of the Stroop Report. The report, which is an account of the Warsaw Ghetto uprisal and the Nazi response to it, includes telegrams on four different days which specifically identify Treblinka II as the destination for liquidation and destruction of the captured Warsaw Ghetto Jews. Any idea of what I am talking about? In any case, it hardly sounds as if the Jews of Warsaw Ghetto were being sent to a summer camp, or even resettlement. I’d say the word destruction leaves little room for doubt.

Also: do you just summarily dismiss the eyewitness accounts by any of the Treblinka survivors as irrelevant and/or unreliable? How about the accounts of SS guards, or any other guards? Or even Poles who lived nearby?

I am eagerly awaiting your logistical comments. Whenever you're ready. We "exterminationists" are continuously puzzled by you - negationists, is that it?

Oh well, I hope deniers will do the trick.